wesleysgirl | Thinky thoughts: Why I'm Afraid of New Fandoms

Thinky thoughts: Why I'm Afraid of New Fandoms

(I know, from me. Try not to faint.)

Jossverse -- Buffy and Angel -- was my first fandom, my first real fandom. I still love the shows so, so much, and the characters, and it didn't surprise me at all when I fell in love because I'd been in love with other shows, before. I'd "just" never had relationships with other people who also loved them with the same burning, shocking passion.

I watched X-Files starting some time partly through S1. The first episode Mr WG and I saw was the one with the Jersey Devil, in which there's a line something like "Primates have an instinctive fear of heights." Seriously? Monkeys? Are afraid of heights? We still repeat that line to each other occasionally when in need of a good laugh. But we got really into the show, and watched it every week. We even chose the DJ for our wedding because he was an X-Files fan. (Yes, really.) But while I was a huge FAN of the show -- "Fight the Future" was the first movie I ever saw in the theater by myself, because I couldn't wait until that night when we were going with friends -- I still didn't even know about fandom.

At some point, I discovered fanfic, and I read a ton of X-Files fic. I even started writing one (in a notebook, still kicking around somewhere). But I didn't TALK to other fans. I don't think I ever even sent feedback.

It wasn't until the summer before S5 of Buffy aired, and I happened to catch "Hush" as a re-run, that I discovered Buffy and Angel. I was, of course, instantly fascinated, and immediately borrowed and mainlined about 20 tapes (episodes of both Buffy and Angel, all unlabeled and out of order) in a week and a half. I started watching the shows as they aired, then

byrne, who I knew from elsewhere on the internet, wrote some Spike/Xander and got an LJ and it was all over, LOL.

Anyway. Finding Jossverse fandom was like coming home. It was the first place I ever felt like my obsession with TV characters didn't make me a freak -- or at least it was reassuring to know that there were so many other freaks -- and for years I couldn't even IMAGINE being involved in another fandom. When the last episode of Buffy aired, I watched it on my own because I knew I was going to cry through the entire thing. When Angel was canceled, I was devastated. When the last episode aired, I felt sick. It was partially because I wasn't going to get new shows, sure, but it was mostly because this thing, this amazing phenomenon, was ending. And I'm still not over it.

Fans have moved on. Heck, I've moved on, although I still consider myself to have one foot in Jossverse and the other out in the world of other fandoms. But I think I'm a little scared to throw myself wholly into ONE fandom again, because that just gives it so much more power to hurt me. It's stupid. I know it's stupid. But I can't help it. It feels like, as long as I haven't really devoted myself to one show, I'm safer. I write fic, and I read fic, but for the most part I keep my distance from the fandom part of fandom -- if I don't know what's going on in the kerfuffles, if I'm not involved, I'm safe. I don't have to take sides or try to protect my friends from being hurt.

I'm watching Supernatural and Atlantis and Torchwood and loving all of them. But something's missing, and it's not the shows. It's me.

I'm just not sure how to fix it.

Okay, this session of thinking-while-typing is now at an end. Please exit the car on the right hand side. :-P

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It's not stupid. It's not stupid at all, it's something I know I, at least, still feel -- it's why I'll never take a foot fully out of jossverse, I think, no matter where I may wander.

*snuggles*

It's kind of sad, you know? To think we might never have that one true fandom again, just on its own.

See, I don't think that's all that unusual -- to keep at a distance from the fannish fandomosity of fandom, that is. It's like falling desperately in love with something or someone and then having that suddenly be gone from your life; you're bound to be a touch more careful about being willing to risk that depth of emotion again.

My first Jossverse show was, I admit, Firefly. I'd seen the Buffy movie when it hit theaters while I was in high school, then heard it was being developed into a TV show. I caught parts of eps, but wasn't really hooked until Firefly, when I followed the development of shows from Firefly through Angel and back into Buffy.

And then, of course, Firefly got cancelled.

Part of it, I think, is just maturing -- one's heartfelt adoration of a particular thing mellow into the greater experience of middle age, less willing to risk getting burned by stepping close to the fire of fandom. Fandom can warm, can leave you exhilirated and sweaty and glowing... but it can also leave you with a nasty burn.

Aaaaaaand now you've got me rambling. But I do know I've not quite felt the same desperate affection for shows since Firefly. Network execs have disappointed me too many times, and the fandom mainstream that united behind Buffy has fractured into a dozen or more major movements, each with their own loves and foci.

Firefly died WAY before it's time. It's very unfair. I mean, Angel could have used another season at least, but Firefly getting canceled was totally tragic and uncool.

I didn't know what fandom was before Buffy. I'd read some fanfic for the Pretender, but like you with X-Files, didn't interact with the writers at all. It never occurred to me that there was a community surrounding a beloved show. Until I started reading and writing BtVS fanfic.

To this day, I still thank

emeraldswan for emailing me when it wasn't just feedback all those years ago. She drew me out and made it okay to try to get to know these other writers who shared the same passions that I did.

When Buffy, and then Angel, ended, I never thought I'd find another show that would envelop me so completely. Until I found Heroes, of course. While there is a community, it's not the same as for Jossverse shows. Which is one reason that I can't see myself withdrawing completely from Jossverse.

Jossverse was special! It seems like there are a lot of us who agree on that. It's hard to say goodbye.

Nothing has every hurt as much as Angel ending and the door closing on that world. I was upset when Stargate was cancelled, but not to that level.

::cuddles you::

I was so sad Buffy ended, but I felt like it had a chance to wrap up the story lines in a way that was satisfying. Angel needed at least another season to do the same thing, and didn't get it. It's hard to accept that, somehow, even though it did leave fans with plenty of room to take fic. :-)

*squish*

I have never, ever been as fully involved, heart and soul, with a fandom as I was with Buffy and Angel.

I've let other ones come and go but I think - I think I put a little wall around me, so that losing shows doesn't hurt quite as much as it did when Angel was gone. I mean, when a show that is that amazing, that wonderful, gets canceled - how can other shows that aren't quite THERE meet it?

So now I put things in compartments. I love this show for the show, I love another show for the fic, a third show I like the non-fic commentary on...but nowhere do I just shift in all the way and let every bit of it wash over me.

Nowhere do I want to spend the day after a show frantically checking my flist to see what everybody else though, listening to and sharing detailed discussions of characterization, reading fic of *all* sorts, not a sorta mythical/hypothetical OTP ...

So I think I'm saying - I'm with you, and I don't know how to fix it either. Part of me wants to, because I want to feel that intense obsession again. But a lot of me is scared.

And then part of me goes - hey. I love these other shows. But they're no Jossverse.

I'm wondering what will happen when his new show comes on the air. Because if anybody can break through to me, it's Joss.

It's nice to know I'm not alone, even though it's kind of a sad place to be. I can't help but want to move on at some point, to be able to devote myself totally to one show, but I'm not sure I'm ready. Eek!

I've always had a lurker mentality towards fandom. I slipped out a little bit for B5 & Xena, but I never felt comfortable and quickly went back to lurking.

AtS was the first show that made me want to talk and get involved. I wanted to discuss the show & the characters. I wanted to share my feelings with my fellow fans and let them help me enjoy the show even more than I already did.

I've never felt the same level of commitment since AtS was canceled. I'm a little involved with SGA, but it is pretty superficial and the level of intensity and need to be involved with the fandom isn't there. Nothing out there has grabbed me like AtS did and nothing on TV now has the power to do so. Maybe someday that will change, but for now AtS is still My Show.

Yup. Right there with you. My show. :-)

I think for many of us, Buffy and Angel is when we went from being fans to being fanatics. That something over the top that made us believe in OTPs and there was only certain *right* way to characterize our favorite characters.

And sure, we have opinions about all that in other fandoms but we can laugh off poorly drawn characters or dabble in alternate pairing for our favorites. But it's just not the same as being so invested in the show that we cursed the writers when they did us wrong, worshiped the writers when they did us right, passionately argued character backgrounds and motivations in endless meta discussions ... cried buckets when they left us.

Someday I want to be so blinded by a show that all it's successes lift me up and all it's fault cut me deep. But maybe it's like that first true love, that you will never feel in that way quite the same way.

There's just something about the way Joss writes characters, I think. I mean, I know he's not the only one who wrote episodes, but the way that people got incredibly fannish about Buffy, Angel AND Firefly says something, I think.

It's weird what grabs me to that point of fannish obsession, and what doesn't. I usually can predict whether I'm going to like a show or not, but that level of engagement that comes when I truly fall in love with one is not so predictable.

There's been a number of fandoms I've loved, starting when I was ten and I saw TESB, but it wasn't until I got online in my midtwenties that being a fan became a social thing instead of just how I related to the show.

But considering how long I've been active in fandom and how much longer I've been inclined to be fannish, there's only been a very few that I consider my fandoms. Star Wars. The Sentinel. Buffy/Angel. Supernatural.

There's others that have come close -- ie, X-Files, Babylon 5, Doctor Who, Nightrunner, LotR -- but for one reason or another I didn't go fully kersploosh into them.

I'm always surprised when I find that level of intensity with a new fandom -- because it isn't something I can predict and I do tend to be leery at giving my heart totally to a show because of how much it hurts when bad stuff happen to it. (Which probably explains that, aside from SPN, all my fandoms were ones I got into after they'd had at least one season or one movie under their belts. And why SPN took me completely by surprise in having me reach those levels by halfway through season one.)

The Buffy verse is amazing and I don't feel like I left it or anything. Just that I've added more to the family. (And I am so going to one day write that SPN/BtVS xover au that involves John finding Faith before she makes it to Sunnydale in S3 and ending up training her alongside the boys. Really.)

Yeah -- it's just that my family is too big, LOL, and I can't properly focus on any of them!

I wasn't totally in love with Supernatural until the S1 finale, I don't think. That finale was just -- so incredibly written, it was amazing. :-)

It so seems like the old standard, "You never forget your first," really holds true for fandom as well. I will always think of Buffyverse as my fandom even if I'm playing elsewhere -- I don't know if I'll ever feel as fannishly...monogamous with any other/new fandom.

It's sad to think I might never go back to feeling that way about another fandom, because it was really special.

There will never been another fandom like Buffy. And that's okay. I can't imagine ever getting that wrapped up in another show, liking the other fans so much, thinking about it as deeply. I watch other things, and some of them I like, but there isn't the incredible combination of excellent writing, big issues, humor, and like-minded fangirls.

It was such an incredible universe, with such powerful characters, and the sense of humor really gave it that special spark. :-)

I just had to wander over here after I saw your tag was 'Wesleysgirl'. Could it be MY Wesley??? Yes, yes it was!!
I started out as a Stargate fan (I found you thru Stargate fan rec's, btw.) and hadn't watched either Buffy or Angel. Anywho, I got caught up in some wonderful SG fanfic, wandered over to the author's (ELG) B/A stuff and I was hooked. I found out that TNT was showing 'Angel' every morning at 6 and 7 AM, so I thought I'd tune in one morning and I saw, for my first 'Angel' episode, 'Not Fade Away'.....wails...I thought Wes was kinda cute, how could they kill him off???
So I'm a brand spanking new Angel fan so let me reassure you that it is possible for folks to join the group.
I bought the first season of A, had to talk myself out of just dropping 70 bucks and buying the entire box set. (I'm still wavering on that fence.)
On my morning viewings, I'm just at the beginning of third season,although I've read enough to kind of know what's happening.
As someone pointed out, and rightly so, you may never feel about any other fandom as you did your first, and I suspect that Stargate will always be number one in my heart. But I've gotten to know and like these folks, Angel and Wesley and Cordelia and Gunn.
hats off to you folks who have been there for the duration. And can you point me in the direction of some good Angel fic? I've run through just about everything I can find.

Yay, that's so awesome, new fans! :-)

I have some recs pages here:
http://home.comcast.net/~wesleysgirl/Recs/buffyandangelmain.html

The pages haven't been updated in a while and I know some of the links aren't good anymore, but many of them are still fine and with the name of the author and the story title you may be able to google some of them and find different urls for the same stories. Let me know if there's anything in particular you're looking for, too, because I might be able to hook you up with folks who know more about those pairings/whatever than I do. :-)

I slash Jack/Daniel so it was no hardship to imagine Angel/Wesley doing the nasty in every single room of the Hyperion......
Thanks for the rec page, I bookmarked and will be diving in immediately.

Here via... um... It think I'm here via

metafandom. This is what comes of opening links in new tabs and then going to read later.

But something's missing, and it's not the shows. It's me.

I just wanted to say that I get this so much.

I was very, very devoted to Buffy. Star Wars was my first online fandom I suppose, and I've been really into Harry Potter fandom. But so far as television shows go, I know exactly what you mean because try as I might, I can't get into a fandom like I got into Buffy. And right now, although I really got into Harry Potter fandom and it remains probably the fandom I dabble most in, I don't have a show/book/film that I'm immersed in that fandom so much.

For me, in terms of getting into kerfuffles and understanding fandom, HP was probably the one I experienced the most in, but it is hard to throw that much of myself into a fandom. I've attributed it to growing older, having a full time job, etc, but I'm not convinced that's all it is. Right now I'm watching Torchwood, Doctor Who, and Battlestar Galactica, but I'm not as involved in fandoms as I was and I don't know how to change it. At this point I tend to still be peripherally involved in fandoms I've been involved with in the past and do very little, relatively speaking, with newer shows I'm enjoying.

I miss the Buffy rush!

Re: the kerfuffles, I think it's easier to Just Back Away when it's not a fandom you're deeply invested in (and I couldn't honestly say that I'm not at least a little bit grateful NOT to get involved in kerfuffles most of the time, because it's not fun!)

I'm glad I'm not the only one who was so devoted to Buffy, although I'm sad it doesn't seem to be unusual that people find it hard to move on.

I am *so* with you. I don't know what it is either; I cared so passionately about BtVS, and nothing else has even come close to that.

My attitude toward fandom is so much more low-key now. These days the text is basically just an excuse for me to talk to other fans, because I like hanging out with fannish people and talking about fannish stuff. I don't actually *care* that much about the text itself. I mean, it's fun, but... the passion is not there.

I'm not sure I *want* to get that fannish again. It felt kind of out-of-control, that the writers of a TV show and the decisions of a network could have that much power over my emotions. And looking back, it was kind of insane how many hours I spent arguing with people on the internet about which character or 'ship was better. I don't know why I thought it *mattered* so much; these days "agree to disagree" or "mock argue for fun" seem like far superior solutions. It's not like my hours of ranting on the internet were actually going to change the writers' minds.

On the other hand, most of my real-life best friends are people that I bonded with during that fandom, even though none of us are even into it anymore, so I guess the intensity had its good side.

Yeah, I know what you mean -- it's a lot more peaceful in some ways NOT to be that involved, because I definitely don't miss the kerfuffles (although I avoided those as much as I could).

Why try to move on? Yesterday, I was up at 3 am to discuss a series that ended over 20 years ago (Remington Steele) with people similarly obsessed. I belong to several fandoms of things that are closed canon (ie no longer being made). I tend to prefer it that way. I know there are no nasty surprises waiting.

This wasn't meant to be a lecture telling people to move on! I was just thinking aloud in my journal. I miss the excitement that comes with new canon and part of me wishes I could find it again with a new fandom, that's all.

That's my advice--to those of you who think you're never going to feel that hot rush of fandom love for a fandom again. Just wait and see. :-)

Ultimately, you might turn out to be one of those OTF fans (One True Fandom), destined to never do more than dabble in other fandoms, if even that.

And you know? That's okay. It takes all kinds of fans, after all . . .

I definitely miss being totally caught up in new episodes as they happened, that's for sure!

i don't know if anyone else has mentioned it yet but Angel the series is currently being continued by Joss in a graphic novel format, so far it's surprisingly good, I don't know if I'm feeling it as much as the shows though

I know, I have to get my hands on them at some point! I'm not a graphic novel person in general so I haven't jumped on that wagon yet, but I'm sure I will at some point. Thanks!

All I can say is that I'm totally with you. I even had a dream about the Jossverse last night (and I never dream about TV shows), and I woke up missing it so much I'm aching. I don't think I can let myself do that again.

I suppose it makes sense that we (fans) might not be willing to set ourselves up to be hurt again. *Hugs*

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Thinky thoughts: Why I'm Afraid of New Fandoms

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Never say never

Re: Never say never

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